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Associations!

Samantha - see page to know who to contact directly! September 1st, 2013 1:09:57am 4,333 Posts

As everyone knows, we have been trying very hard to make clubs and associations more active because they're a good community feature and there's a lot of potential in them to create more activity on the game and keep people online for longer playing and entering contests and such. However, it seems like no matter what we do, people still aren't interested. And I think a lot of that is to do with the fact that we have both clubs and associations and there's just not a big enough market on the game to support both. So for awhile now the staff has been thinking of ways to make them more different from each other, and asking members on surveys and in forums topics, etc. But no one seems to have any good ideas when it comes to associations. So, this has been running through my mind for awhile, but it should obviously be a community decision, how would you feel about just getting rid of associations? If you're unsure, here are my thoughts: 1. With no associations, there would be more incentive to run for president in the clubs, which would mean more competition and more activity. 2. They obviously need to be redone anyway, but we have no solid ideas, and not having them re-programmed leaves a lot money open for other features to be revamped (like the graphics auction) or things added in. 3. For current association owners, there would always be the option to keep the ones you have, or maybe we could offer you some sort of compensation to give it up. I don't know. If you think they should not be taken out, please let me know why you think this. I am listening to all suggestions. Also, if you're in favor of them staying, how do you think we could boost activity in them? If you think they should be taken out, do you think there should be another upgrade feature to replace them? Please let me know and discuss below!

 

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primrose •• 15 years!? September 1st, 2013 3:12:06pm 86 Posts

I'm a little biased here, but I don't want to see associations go. I agree with chaotic about weeding them out, but as a VERY active owner of the 4H and HP Services association, I put more time, HPD, and USD into my associations than I would like to admit. I get positive feedback from my members (the ones that are involved), telling me that the contests I run are working. I would hate to see that go to waste. I think associations could work if there were more effort. Unfortunately they are much like clubs, and running the same things over and over again just don't work. I think with weeding out BOTH clubs and associations, there will be less competition and could be more incentive to participate.I don't think we should completely get rid of allowing animals to be registered to associations. I just think it needs to be tweaked. You could raise the fee (or have there be multiple sign up fees, ie 1000 hpd gets you 1000 points, 10,000 gets you 2000 points, etc). You could sort of active players and players who just want the label on their animal by doing that, or maybe they would have to fill out a small form to enter and be accepted.

 

Audacious & Blitz [Andalusians] September 1st, 2013 3:15:15pm 558 Posts

Hmmm I actually really like Chaos idea in the entirety. Removing registration and shows separates them further from clubs. Or shows could remain but be an open to all deal, with normal points, basically a regular old public show, not double points awarded like currently. I knew there was a reason I thought they should stay, or at least some of them, and that was basically associations LIKE the roleplay one as it used to be the ONLY place people could advertise RPs. I agree with cutting all breed based and irrelevant associations. Cut them way back and ensure they have a completely different purpose. But I'm concerned with such limited associations about having a permanent owner. I would like to see it a balloted term, but longer than one month. 3 month terms (quarterly terms) Jan-Mar, Apr-Jun, Jul-Sept, Oct-Dec. That way it wouldn't be exclusive to a few people...There are reasons I like the idea of ballots and reasons I don't. I don't like it because then adding new associations would have to be like adding new clubs as it is right now...they poof into existence and Sam assigns a president. I don't know how much I would like it being done that way than players requesting them...BUT with the way chao proposed it might almost be better if associations had to be carefully selected by Sam rather than anyone is able to request one about anything and it's up to Blitz to accept them into being.

 

trig 🍂 what a wonderful day September 1st, 2013 3:26:39pm 3,612 Posts

I think it would be good to limit the number of associations you account can be a member of (5-10?). I think creating an association should be like adding a breed too. You're on trial for 30-60 days, players have to back you before being added, ect.

 

Famous Shamus }} from blood and ash, we will rise September 1st, 2013 3:28:45pm 276 Posts

I say keep associations...I love having them and being a part of some of them. And I like that it gives a lot of players to run something they are passionate about and to try an d bring people together. Keep them how they areHonestly, I think the main issue with clubs is that they can be expensive to run. If you really want to make a great term, it costs millions of your own money. I know a lot of players want to run clubs, but don't have the money to make it a fun term. If every month clubs were given money for contests or tickets to sell to raise money or SOMETHING so that presidents don't have to spend so much of their own, I think that would help. More people would want to run (And they spend their money running--buying votes and whatnot), but when they take over there would be money in the club for great contests. I know it costs money now to register animals, but that really doesn't bring in a lot. Players participate in contests that have high prizes.

 

Blitz -- Stellar Gypsy Vanners September 1st, 2013 3:52:36pm 1,308 Posts

Chao: why keep associations around, then? Why don't we just let players make them on their own pages, and we can keep a list on a page somewhere so players can find them?

 

𝔖𝔱𝔬𝔯𝔪 ℭ𝔯𝔬𝔴 💀 The Artist Formerly Known as xxCHAOTIC September 1st, 2013 4:35:39pm 1,854 Posts

Adranth: Because then someone has to give up an account to host it on. I don't want to have to go make another basic JUST to host x association on. I would rather leave it attached to my main for convenience. Both so it's easier to get a hold of me and so I don't have to log in and out to see it. It would keep there from being 92409148234 x association. And the bickering between people running the same association. Keeping them on associations would make them easier for us as staff to monitor. Keeping them on associations still gives access to the mass messaging system, which is a powerful tool for eliciting player participation. Lemo: I think letting them have open shows is fair. Removing the registry would make it so that people can't abuse them for private shows anymore, which is a major point of contention with me. I WOULDN'T want to see them cycle through for a ballot like clubs, because it would screw over all of the cataloging/database type clubs. The Breeder's Almanac, for example, is MASSIVE. Could you imagine losing ALL of that information every few months? I would prefer making it so more than one account could be hooked onto an association. I'd like to have a part in a couple associations, but not be solely responsible for my own (unless one of those people give it up). Shamus: Problem is, people don't enter contests no matter HOW big the prize. No-effort contests like my mascot contest got 5 entries total, with 25 mil PLUS a custom graphic from me PLUS a small award to display. My club card contest got 2 entries (and was SO easy), with a 25 mil prize. Phism's... coloring contest, essentially, had money and UPGRADE TIME for a prize and there were still like... 5. People do not care. We're not going to hand out money for clubs. There's already too much money in the system. You're right that it shouldn't be all on the president to fund it, but players should be donating. If they can't out of the goodness of their own heart, give'em an incentive. Hold a raffle or something. Bliss: Just do not like the points for cash thing. Too pay-to-win. Icy Terror: Yeah, doing away with registry AND shows is a little too much. I would rather see more shows in the system (blah blah blah flooding). Make them open shows, maybe keep them double points, but remove the registry requirement. People are abusing the daylights out of association shows as it is right now. I have a feeling if breed and discipline associations were removed, arguments could be made for re-introducing some clubs back in. As it is, if clubs see more activity we may be getting some back. There's already a TON of duplicate associations for most (if not all) clubs. As for discarding associations that don't relate to the game, that is kinda what the forums are for. Most of the boards here aren't game related and look how busy they are. If you look at the recent posts, they're pretty much always just forum game posts. No one's actually talking. Instead of having an association, why not just have a thread dedicated to it? Link Tree

 

Darkwood Retirement September 1st, 2013 5:02:56pm 3 Posts

With someone who has a association and was president of a club as well, i prefer keeping associations over clubs. More dogs can be added in different types of associations. But with clubs, most presidents only go with the American Kennel Club or whichever Kennel Club is int here country. I don't think that is fair as dogs can do more than what they "registered" to do. Take a German Shepherd for instance - they are a working breed but yet they are registered as herding dog with the kennel club and very few German shepherds nowadays actually herd sheep. I would think about getting rid of my associations if my dogs can be registered in more than 2 clubs which is basically the way now. I am guilty of not keeping my associations active because i can never generate enough interest in some of them. And also real life does get int he way of being able to do more online when i only have weekends to do anything. Mostly because i think players feel that their are two many associations and that they have to chose which contests to enter.

 

𝔖𝔱𝔬𝔯𝔪 ℭ𝔯𝔬𝔴 💀 The Artist Formerly Known as xxCHAOTIC September 1st, 2013 5:10:02pm 1,854 Posts

yeeeeah, not really all that happy with the dog club selection and it didn't hit me 'till I went to run for working... I would have left the AKC groups as clubs (working, toy, herding...), plus all dogs, wild, and rare. Yeah, they don't get much (... if any) traffic but I almost feel like they're TOO bare, now.As for registry requirements, those are completely up to the presidents involved and (should) have no bearing on the clubs v. association debate. You can always petition the president, politely, to reconsider their requirements or put in a ballot for yourself for next month if you don't like the way the club is being run. Link Tree

 

Fantasy Spare Aussie Shepherd September 1st, 2013 5:16:44pm 6 Posts

Maybe if we limit the type and number of associations. We are already cutting down the number of clubs. Why don't we do that with Associations? I run assocaiations that mulitple different types of horses and dogs can enter. Mostly because alot of associations were breed specific. Which is great and all but that limits the player base. Maybe if we limit breed specific associaitons? I started my assocaiton: Sporthorses of HP because i breed rare Spanish Normans and i couln't get them accepted in only a few clubs and associations.

 

Sassafras Tango September 1st, 2013 5:21:43pm 1,233 Posts

I love the idea of associations, what I don't like too much about them is that there are so many that are only for certain breeds of horses or dogs or where horses and dogs come from and there are a few associations that are similar to each other.Most of the breeds aren't especially popular (like American Mules) so the players that breed American Mules might join but only maybe a quarter of them will actually participate in the association. Also, there seems to be a few associations that are similar to each other. I mean you've got Breeder's Almanac, HP Studbook, HP Breeding Association, and HP Services Association. I definitely like the idea of one of these but I'm not going to participate in all of them. I would just pick the one with the president running it the best.Now I'm pretty newish around here so I don't know very much about the rules for making an association or how associations are accepted or rejected by the staff but maybe there should be guidelines such as no associations that are too similar which would take care of a lot of the breed associations too (like it could combine the Bully Dog Association and Pitbull Association).The only problem I have with associations being turned into player accounts is I feel it will become a lot like Horseland where there will be 5 of the same type of association or "unofficial club". And I really don't like that.Also, I really pay attention to and try to participate in the associations that are more largely community based. Take the Endangered Breeds Association for example, I love that association soo much! I think Quicksilver, Bellicus, Phism, and Zoiink are doing a fabulous job of running it, and I try to participate as much as I can with their raffles. Also, the Breed Suggestions association, I think is a great idea. It really beats going to the forums and checking out every topic to see which breeds might get added or which I would want to help get added. I would really hate to see these associations go and I would really hope the players running it would create an account to run the club on and not just shut it down.Sorry for the super duper long post.

 

Binny 🦄 [blitz watching] September 1st, 2013 5:33:26pm 2,913 Posts

I like the idea of removing the associations to free up money for the rest of the site. I dont use association shows, so that wont bother me personally.I feel if there is less clubs/associations, there will be more activity. I almost feel overwhelmed with the amount of contests between clubs/associations. It takes a huge effort to enter most of them - this could be the reason people arnt active in them. There is toooo much of it.Ya I could through a graphic or mascot to this club or that - but then the others sit. So then you pick and choose. Where Id rather not. I would LOVE to be active in all the clubs/associations, but again, I personally feel that there are WAY too many to do so.

 

𝔖𝔱𝔬𝔯𝔪 ℭ𝔯𝔬𝔴 💀 The Artist Formerly Known as xxCHAOTIC September 1st, 2013 5:36:22pm 1,854 Posts

There are waaaaay too many associations. Way too many. I'd rather trim most of the associations, bring a COUPLE clubs back to replace them (mostly dog, horse are fine), and nerf the remaining associations. Link Tree

 

Binny 🦄 [blitz watching] September 1st, 2013 5:40:19pm 2,913 Posts

I do like the idea, of having associations for stuff the we cant have club for. But no registry or shows. Thats the whole point of clubs in my eyes, so having them for both really doesnt make sense.But if we were to kill the association shows, we could do some point adjustment to the club shows to hit even ground. Or like has been stated, have open shows.

 

Freia | Vanheim Icicles | September 1st, 2013 5:44:34pm 785 Posts

I'm kinda leaning towards chao's suggestion here. Though I'd give some of the popular breeds their clubs back. With a limit of, say, there has to be x amount of active breeders/trainers of the breed for a club to exist. If the numbers dwindle the club disappears. If more breeders start showing up we can re-apply for the club to start again, like the association/breed system is atm.

 

𝔖𝔱𝔬𝔯𝔪 ℭ𝔯𝔬𝔴 💀 The Artist Formerly Known as xxCHAOTIC September 1st, 2013 5:45:03pm 1,854 Posts

Binski:I'd rather have open shows. More shows. Less freebie cheat-y private shows in the 903724092374234 associations for breeds that only have like, 3 breeders or only apply to a couple breeds. Freia:Yeah, I think that could be argued as a fair trade off. Cull most of the associations, give a couple clubs back as compromise. I'd get behind that movement. Link Tree

 

Lady Rancher 1, Wild n Wicked Wolves, September 1st, 2013 5:59:47pm 1,706 Posts

I join every club where my animals can join, I get something for my fee and it doesn't cost much, but there are too many assoc to keep up with and after I join a lot of them disappear, there goes the joining fee, I dont spend as much time as I did with assoc as Im making a lot of privates then requesting,then entering my animals in them, takes a lot of time. but I do go and enter for contests or mascots if my animals fit the requirements, when I see them advertised

 

adeina ❧ border collies ❦ September 1st, 2013 6:02:15pm 1,791 Posts

I'm the same as Uni.. I could take them or leave them.Personally, I think that breed-specific associations should go.. That would be beneficial for the clubs.I do, however, think that associations SUCH as The Designer's Arena, Breeder's Almanac and the Prestigious Player's Association should stay, or be pinned underneath the clubs as a 'directory' so to speak.

 

𝔖𝔱𝔬𝔯𝔪 ℭ𝔯𝔬𝔴 💀 The Artist Formerly Known as xxCHAOTIC September 1st, 2013 6:06:20pm 1,854 Posts

Pretty much every association I've joined that wasn't some kind of directory has poofed. They'll accept my animals and then I never hear from them again. I might get a message once in a blue moon about shows. Link Tree

 

uni September 1st, 2013 6:09:33pm 1,338 Posts

I agree with pretty much everything chao said! This month I applied for a Coding faq/help association, and I think something like that would be a useful resource for players, just based on the sheer number of coding question messages I get everyday! There's really no point in having a registry for that. I do think being able to make shows would be good, but I think they should just be regular old shows that anyone can enter, like club shows used to be.I would want it to be a separate thing from just a spare account, as it would be linked to my main and you'd still get the 'association' features, like messaging all members for contest info and such.So yeah, pretty much what chao said :p

 

🐈~Broken Vow~🍂 September 1st, 2013 7:12:18pm 8,653 Posts

I'd like to keep the associations, or at least keep most of them. I'd be a little sad if my Driving Horse & Pony Association goes poof. It's been around for a while and a lot of my own hpd has gone into that association just to keep it floating. I know I'm at fault for the lack of creative ideas for contests, but I've had a few entrees for the raffle and mascot contests in the past. I personally haven't been advertizing in chats like I did when I was running the SaddleSeat Club a while back, should work on that...Maybe there could be some sort of monthly/bi-monthly fee (hpd) the association owner has to pay in order to keep their association from being removed on top making sure that shows are created and registry updated. Just so associations aren't created for the sole purpose of making shows and have nothing else done with them...If that makes any sense? Other than that I don't really have anything good to say. I still like the Associations, yep. *nods*

 

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