I'm interested to here everyones thoughts on why they keep their lines private or why they sell back ups or allow public breedings with their lines. I've always gone back and forth on whether my lines should be private vs public.

Part of me wants to sell pups/foals from my lines and bring other pups/foals into my own lines. I think it is a great way to diversify your lines and add to their value but I'm also a huge control freak. I think the biggest issue for me is that I have sold some great pups/foals before only to have them not be trained at all. It bothers me a lot when I'm going back through lines and find animals that have less than 1mil points at retirement even if it was just a back up I sold... which makes me want to keep my lines private so I can control everything... because I'm a control freak. 

So I wanted to hear everyone elses thoughts.

This has been asked in different variations before, I believe, but I have heard various reasons for it. Typically, when it happens, I see HPers give out back-ups through namely a side-line that is not their main line; then every once in a great blue moon, they'll do a back-up sale from the main line. Personally for me, I keep my Wicked lines private because they're a line I've not only put a lot of real money, sweat, and tears into, but they're the best lines I've ever bred in my entire time on HP. I wanted to do a back-up around G4, but I'm changing my plans to be at least a G5 or higher when the pedigree is fully fleshed out and the babies are getting at least 400k - 500k. And I think many other players feel the same way about theirs too, as that hard work is not something to give up easily. 

I will be honest that the extreme privacy within HP lines is something that I've seen some players criticize over the years, but I do see the reason behind the privacy as well. While yes, it's good to diversify, expand out lines, and help the economy, you don't want to overkill it either. If you're too open to the breeding, then you can run into problems. Because by that point, the market flooded with hundreds and thousands of babies from the line, so they're either now completely worthless in value because they're so overpopulated or you lose money because someone can now just breed your line's offspring for much cheaper; which then there's no reason to go back to you for fresh bloodstock. I truly think that this anxiety is the axiom of why there isn't such a big expansion of sales, though the Breed Ambassador input has helped a bit.

Honestly, since there is really no "right way" or "wrong way" to breed a line and merely just preference, I'd just go on what makes you most at ease as the best way.  Breeding a line should be rewarding as it is challenging, not fully stress-inducing, so all you really need to ask yourself is: Given I know all the outcomes for each, what method makes you most comfortable doing? If you have done a public line and liked how things took place, then go for it again. If you like being currently private and have a controlled regulation on how procedures go, then do that. 

For me it depends on which of my lines we're talking about.

Anything that's not one of my major breeds (Appys, Goldens, or Aussie Shepherds) I have no problem doing backup sales on for the public.

For the Appys, anything in my Xerox Lines tab on my page I will only think about doing public backups for certain people, who I know will treasure and keep the lines going and not let them die/spread them around to everyone and their brother. 

For my Goldens, the Annie line is based on RL Goldens we've had in my family. The first major project in that line, Annie, was done right when we had her put down due to old age. Then the 2nd one I ticketed on that line was Kenzie, who we had put down at 18 months due to aggressive bone cancer. Thus, they're extremely personal to me and thus IF I do a backup (which I think I've only done 2 of in their history?) for the public, you'd bet it's only going to a select few people I trust with the line, even more so than I'm protective of the Appy line.

Then my Aussie Luka lines I only just started 2 gens ago, so I'm particular but also just haven't let anyone have them yet LOL. 

In short, I think for most people it's a personal preference coupled with personal loyalty to their special tribute lines.

I train/breed pretty much exclusively rare breeds on here (both dog and horse). Just this year though there's been a few more breeders pop up of some of my breeds. Because I have not-so-popular breeds, I don't really worry about selling my backups, or breeding with outside lines.

I have started breeding and posting for sale all my backups of all my breeds because, sort of in the Breed Ambassador way, I want to encourage other players to start training these rare HP breeds. My main breed (which is on hiatus right now as I build up funds) is the Kabarda. It's also a rare breed but I have sold a backup foal from my project line. I think that backup line has died though. However, I don't let that bother me because I have a foal from the same line that I trained and had control over. The same goes for all my other breeds. It doesn't really matter to me what the buyer does with the foal/pup because I have the final breeding foal/pup to continue the lineage. A sold backup is solely just an extra breeding to me, except for the increase in born points, and possibly gender, there's not really a difference between the backup breeding and the final breeding. 

I would allow breedings of my lines but it's not a popular thing to do on HP and since I breed rare breeds, there's not a lot of players that are interested in breeding with my lines.

If I put more than 600m per gen into my lines, they are private. Mainly because not many people want to put in the money for backups that are worth a lot. If I do do a backup it's to someone I trust and know will cherish the lines, I did something unheard of this past generation and sold two of my prized lines because they went to people I trust to train. 

I think I'm keeping my personal lines (non-partner accounts) private, but like others have said, they're rare breeds so it probably won't come up, anyway. There just doesn't seem to be any benefit in combining lines with other people. 

My partner breeds are limited edition breeds, so I can definitely see times when we might have to get a line from someone else...

It is purely up to you in the end. My only truly private lines are my Amorphis Finnhorses. Before I privatized them, I sold a few backups since they were my only lines back then. Now, I've only sold one backup from that line. I may do more, but it would have to be to someone who cares about the breed and will train the foal. As for the rest of my breeds, I don't have any fully private lines and I tend to only breed backups from the more popular breeds. With the rest, like Finnhorses, I wait for people to approach me. Because they're more on the rare side, it doesn't happen often xD

As for adding lines to your existing ones, I'm also a control freak, but only because I won't add just any lines. They can't be inbred or overbred and they must be pure, of course. Then I also look at the points of the parents and ancestors - I want quality. I sometimes avoid really long lines if the owners of some horses have stopped playing, but since deceased/deleted horses don't completely vanish from the game or the pedigree, I'm starting to be a bit more accepting of it. However, I'm also downsizing, so I'm not buying so much anymore.

I'm usually pretty open about backups from my less major lines since I love fostering friendliness and diversity among breeders (and there are a lot of paints out there to choose from, especially). For my bigger/more invested lines though (Gems & Corporate) I've only sold backups to people I trust to actually do something with the foals, and I've only bought new stock from people who I know will likewise take care of the established lines and keep them up to par. The only thing you mentioned that I can't see myself doing is just offering straight up public breeding to a stud of mine; it just reminds me of people breeding willy-nilly on HL and I think I'm still scarred from some of the crazy overbreeding shenanigans from back in those days (old farts, recall the original Art Deco on HL...)

I think the big thing with lines it that most people are saying they're open to selling backups, but no one really wants to buy them to add into their lines, which is why there isn't much of a market for them.

@Jaya - I'm the opposite - I love buying backups to incorporate into my lines. :U Much better to have a lined foal to bring in (even if those lines aren't mine) than to just add a store in, imo.

It'd be interesting if more people had that mentality, Mero. :)

It would, but most of us just don't have the time anymore, like we did as teens. So technically there's a huge market for backups, but if no one buys, then no one wants to breed and then delete a bunch of backups. I'm also 100% with Mero on not offering public studs. I dunno how people can just end up with a random mare and then need a stud xD It bothers my HP OCDness. I always keep 1 foal from every pair, and then either pair it with another foal or buy it a store mate. If I can pair it with a backup from other lines, great.

P.S. I have a weakness for backups that are like 15th generation or higher :D

I really want to start a "project" now where I start with one backup I buy from someone and my goal is to not use any stores. I need to find a popular enough breed to do it with.

Back when I bred Aussies I kept them private until like the 5th generation I think. I sold a couple backups, one of which didn't get trained and the other went to someone that ended up quitting and the line died (which isn't a huge deal).

I am pretty particular about my doggos. So when I started my Lhasas I made a "Group A" which are my private lines, I put a lot of time and money into these dogs so I doubt I would ever sell a backup pup from them. However, I also started a "Group B" which I'm basically setting up as my public lines, and since I'm putting a majority of effort into my Group A lines I'm not as attached to the public lines. Lhasas aren't a popular breed though, I'm the only breeder, so not sure if there would ever be interest in my dogs.

Once I get to 3rd gen (4 more weeks!), I can become the breed ambassador and hopefully get some more breeders on board with my "Group B" public lined dogs. Which hopefully generate a little more interest since they'll be 3rd gen and not just starter pairs.

I agree with Jaya that I feel like a majority of players don't necessarily want to buy out of someone else's lines.

I think one of the reasons people started being protective of their lines, way back when HP was still "young" was because of past bad experiences on HL. People there would overbreed, inbreed, break lines etc. The great thing about HP is we don't need to breed backups in fear of the last baby or the dam "dying" as happened on HL. 

My main G.S.D. line has been mostly private, and if my memory is correct, only two people have ever done anything with a pup brought from me. Allix (who doesn't currently play) got a pup off me and got her to top of the breed (a dream I achieved vicariously through Allix lol). She sold one of that dog's pups to Monstaccato who did amazingly at keeping the line alive. 
Please note that I don't feel negatively towards those who "failed" their pups. Other things came up for them which took precedence over HP.

The rest of my GSDs are pretty much open to anyone who wishes to buy backups when I have anything decent to sell, and loads of "my" pups have gone on to gain great points and build fab lines.

Hi!

I am one of the breeders who have for the SEA lines;  a private and a public line.
For me, this is a really simple concept. My private lines usually get a bit more attention than my public ones. Even though I occasionally buy an extra animal from another player, I always make 100% sure that those lines are save ( as in not retired, but rather on a retirement account) Have no inbreeding, overbreeding and crossbreeding,  and If I put them in my own line and the owner sells the parents to public, i keep an eye out for them so i can buy the parents before the line goes to waste. Because of this line being more attended too, im also more protective over it; I hate to see people buying something and then not training the animals. This is also the reason why they are branded as my own, as when I sell 1 of my privates im about 90% sure they will be attented too the best the new owner can.
Also the reason why they are on private sale is so I can check the bidder out lol.

The public line is for all the people to enjoy. Ofcourse I train them every week and make sure they are well attended too, but they might not be branded, and everone else can buy them from autobuy when for sale, so a foal can end up to a new player and that player never trains them. I dont really care then. This is also a way to keep a steady flow of animals available to breed to, to buy and sell, trade, to whomever. All that I will practically control on this is the amount of breedings a stallion or mare gets ( max 3 per animal)
The other part of the public line, is to just have an extra stash of animals to fill in any breeding gaps for an extra foal, or just to sell out to the public to help establish new lines. Players can message me at any time asking for a pair and/or backups they would want of any of my public lines without any of my hessitation. Sometimes for the public lines I will buy animals that are behind in training, train them as good as i can, breed them, and the foals aer in my public lines. Ofcourse the parents will be a bit behind training, but the new foal will do just fine. One of the reasons I can actually buy animals behind in training ( and feel save to do so) are because of my public lines. Otherwise I might buy something behind training, then the parent gets deleted 4 generations on, and then I have a broken private line with all the extra effort in it....  I wouldnt want to risk that.  If its from a public line it will be sad but I dont really stay awake because of it.


Any of my other breeds are basically available to whomever asks me, although I will be a tiny bit more hessitant to sell a foal or pup to a new players as to where it be an established player asking me, but this depends on which person. I'd be more than happy to sell bakcups from any of my rare breeds to established players, as they could always use more breeders. For the TB's, Andalusians and friesians for example: Ask and receive :)

The only other breed out of the question to this are my collies; My collies are from subrosa's (rhino's) lines and I would never want to crank her feelings to just sell em to outside people. Im really good friends with her too outside of HP (shes inactive here ) 
I'd rather let the lines die again, and eventually do a backup retirement breeding, then to sell the lines to someone else. My collies in this case are out of the question