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How many would I need to have a full pedigree?

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Shadow - Finnhorse - Well Its been a wild ride
June 10th, 2019 9:19:21pm
32 Posts

I was curious how many pairs would you have to do to have a full pedigree on a ending pair of animals by like 5th or 10th gen? I am thinking about doing this to add some challenge to my breeding but wasnt sure the numbers I would need to start with to accomplish this.




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Kuwait: The Alsatian King | Pop, Pop, Pop Muzik! |
June 10th, 2019 10:37:09pm
1,108 Posts

Lots! :P

 

With my X-Files line I started with 60-something dogs, then bred them down as much as I could, but obviously didn't get perfect pairs every time. Many of the earlier gens have nice-looking imediate pedigrees, but if you look at their great-grandparents' pedigrees, they have stores here and there.




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Shadow - Finnhorse - Well Its been a wild ride
June 10th, 2019 11:23:08pm
32 Posts

 That's what I was figuring Lol I don't know I've never thought about doing something like this so I thought I'd ask :) I know I'd be insane to do it




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Kuwait: The Alsatian King | Pop, Pop, Pop Muzik! |
June 10th, 2019 11:28:02pm
1,108 Posts

If you like a challenge, then it's a good one. You'd need to have plenty of money and patience, that's for sure! :o




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Moderator Maharet stay Hangry
June 11th, 2019 12:55:30am
1,965 Posts

I had an alphabet line once but they have all been combined already. A pair for each letter. 

Move also bought 50 of each gender and done that. I’ve been at it along time though 😉




 

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Master Administrator Samantha
June 11th, 2019 11:43:56am
3,941 Posts

By full pedigree you mean they'll both have a fully filled in pedgree when you click on their pedigree? (So a set of parents, 2 sets of grandparents, and 4 sets of great grandparents?)

If you're willing to do gender changes when you don't get perfect pairs you could do it with 16 animals to start, and it would take you 4 generations. You could also do 2 breedings per pair to raise your chances of getting the correct gender out of one of them, if you're okay with mismatched ages.

Without doing any gender changes, I think probably the minimum number of animals you could start with would be 32 (all bred twice per pair), but it would be hard to keep track of the lines if you kept all of the foals/pups from both breedings to ensure that you didn't need to bring in a store.

Example Breeding

So, with the goal of 2 finished animals with full pedigrees, theoretically you'd keep the starting lines of the two finished horses/dogs separate to avoid accidental crossbreeding in the end.

So for simplicity I'm only going to do the theoretical breedings for one of the final animals' pedigree. It would have 16 starter animals as potential great-grandparents (since you only need 8 in the end). Doing two breedings of each would give you 16 babies, and I did a mock breeding with the same 50/50 odds as you'd get in an actual breeding and came out with 10 females and 6 males.

Which means that you'd have 6 perfect pairs for the grandparents (and I was able to do it without breeding siblings) to continue on with which is fine because you only need 4 grandparents. Then doing a mock breeding of those for the parents, I got 7 males and 5 females so you'd have 5 perfect pairs (and I was able to match up pairs while avoiding breeding cousins, because this is the generation where that becomes a concern).

So in this mock breeding for your final animal I got 1 female and 4 males - one of these would be one half of your final pair. And since you have a potential female and 4 potential males, you'd be able to breed with the final foal/pup from your other 16 starters, so you'd have a perfect pair with full, non-inbred pedigrees.

In this mock breeding, you actually could get your final pair out of these 16 animals without inbreeding, but the reason I say you'd need to start with at least 32 animals is because you run the risk of the algorithm not working in your favor pairs-wise, and you also might get "perfect" pairs, but some of them could potentially be eliminated for being siblings or cousins. Especially the further down you get because in the breeding for the final animal, only 1 of the males is completely unrelated to the single female, the other 3 males are cousins. Also even with 32 animals, you run the risk of it not working out perfectly, but that's what I would say the minimum amount is

Here's the chart I used to figure this out, and each final animal has it's pedigree underlined in the same color so you can easily see who the parents are are where they cross.

tl,dr: 16 animals if you're willing to do gender changes, 32 animals if you're not




 

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Kuwait: The Alsatian King | Pop, Pop, Pop Muzik! |
June 11th, 2019 11:56:01am
1,108 Posts

Holy crap, Sam! o_o




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Shadow - Finnhorse - Well Its been a wild ride
June 11th, 2019 12:32:24pm
32 Posts

Okay wow that helps allot but man 




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