I can't be the only one who feels frustrated by unreasonable, borderline rude bids. This is an open letter to those who are either trying to get a cheap graphic or insult an artist who (for all you know) put countless hours into that piece you just bid 2mill on when the AB is 50mill

1. Consider the amount of time, effort and practice it takes any artist (not just myself) to create the piece you're bidding on.

2. Notice the theme or original concept behind the manip. Perhaps they've been quite creative, but their skills may be a bit rusty. Understand that we can't all be top-notch designers overnight. Photomanipulation takes endless patience and dedication to develop an effective technique.

3. Look at the fine details. Nose hairs? How often do you see a manip with noticeable details like NOSE HAIRS? Seriously!

4. A good rule of thumb, in my opinion, is to bid lower than a custom from that artist, but significantly higher than the starting bid. Just because "there is no starting bid" doesn't mean we want to give a manip of 6-12 hours to you for 1-5mill.

5. STOP BIDDING LOWER THAN CUT-AND-PASTE PIECES! If we painted an entire mane and tail with a 1-2px brush, strand by strand, re-painted the horse, added noticeable definition to bone structure and painted a teeny tiny eye on it, DO NOT bid the same way you would on something from old hl days with a choppy cut job, slightly smudged mane and tail, zero lighting changes and grassy feet from the old background. That's insulting. Plain and simple.

6. If you know the artist is trying to improve their work and continues to post increasingly better quality graphics every time they put an auction you, don't bid the same price you bid last time. If they're getting better, show them. Unless their graphics stay exactly the same, the price should be increasing (if only slightly) every time.

7. Never bid $1 or under $1mill at all. Even if the graphic is low-quality in your opinion. Nobody on this entire game wants $1mill or less for an honest effort and bringing you art.

8. REMEMBER: We aren't selling our art for actual income in real life on hp, yet we spend all these hours in whatever program creating art to "sell" FOR FREE. We take hours upon hours out of our day (when we could be working for pay somewhere else, in theory) just to give you essentially free art. Game money does not equal real money.

I'm not trying to offend people with this, just open your eyes. We are ARTISTS, no matter what skill level. We are being quite generous with all that we do in the graphics department as pointed out by the list above. We don't expect fame or fortune out of this, but a reasonable bid. That's literally all we are asking. Wake up and be a little more generous yourselves.

Thanks for reading!

- Majora, out.

I feel like complaining about not receiving a lot of monies for art is...

Sad, to be honest. I mean, I have a BA in Graphic Design and I'd be happy to accept bids that aren't in the million range, and I'd consider my pictures to be on the more polished side. At least, in comparison to the cut-and-paste pictures that are selling like hotcakes. I think they're boring!

The point of being an artist isn't to make money (fake or otherwise.) It's doing something you enjoy and sharing it with other people. Sure, commissions and stuff are necessary for the working artist, but most artists do that because that's what the want to do, not because they'll make a quick buck.

 I mean tbh I'd rather pay IRL monies for some of the stuff I see. Or even commission someone on dA or fA for pictures, which tbh is kind of cheaper than on the game anyway... I can get a headshot or fullbody drawn and colored for 5$ USD, and it seems like it would be a better quality than some of the things selling for astronomical prices on here.

So essentially I'm gonna go ahead and say thank you in advance to anyone who buys my future stuff for whatever price you can afford! I appreciate it and I'm super glad my work is worth paying fake game money for lol. 

yeah i'd have to say i agree with night. I have a diploma in graphic design but tbh that skill set is useless when making horse/dog manips lol i make pic for the community so as such i would sell pics for under a mil in the auction (though sometime it breaks my heart).

yes its true we spend coutless hour doing this stuff and its why most new pic makers dont make it past the year mark. you gotta have passion to do this no just skill. i love this game just for the auctions its self. i love having that freedom of not needing to make pics to make money here and to do them just for fun (so much better than hl).

i even have a special pic offer available to new players where they can get up to three masterpieces for just 100k each and soon will have a newbie club set up with free pics for all to use.

What i and most players love about this game is its community spirit, we give back to each other and it makes it a better place to be. sure its good to vent and i can see your point, but take what you can get and give a player a much needed graphic. cause at the end of the day regardless of bid amount they would'nt bid if they didn't love it.

And...you have newer players who are just starting out, who would like a nice graphic...and they aint got millions n millions like established players here...

honestly, this makes me not wanna buy your graphics...and i buy alotta graphics!!! As alot of people know(bidding wars!)

I agree with all 3. And like tron said in your other post the HP economy is not the same as it used to be. My art sells for 10 to 50 mil and im ok with that. And posting about it is not going to help.. =/ sorry maj but this post isnt going to help you..

Okay, first off - I want to say that this letter really bothers me in more ways than one. I have been on this game since 2013 and I have ordered/bought my share of graphics in the days. I 100% agree with the comments here so far and I'd like to throw in my own two cents on the matter; none of us are trying to slander you or be rude, but this is how we feel about your open letter.

First off, I want to say that I agree 100% with Azalie; these players who bid on your graphics are new players who do not have over 240,000,000,000 HPD and have been here since the game opened. Honestly, I've been here for almost 2 years and I'm still not rich to pay some of the prices that are listed! Also, these starting players are what makes your brand known. They're what most (if not all) graphic designers catered to to get their artwork and names out there. 

Secondly, I love how Nightcore said, "The point of being an artist isn't to make money (fake or otherwise.) It's doing something you enjoy and sharing it with other people."  That is why many of us do our graphics - Before I did photography, I did graphics just for fun and practice; any that I deemed could be sharable, I'd post it into the auctions. Was I professional? Nope. Did I do it for money? Nope. I did it for fun or to give someone a graphic who needed it somewhere on the game. The thanks and happiness I got in messages from them made me feel much happier than the payment. I enjoyed that people took the time to look at my work. Honestly, your letter sounds more like you're interested in making a profit.

Thirdly, I agre with Aoi - You should be grateful that you are getting any bids at all on your work. There are over 21 other artists that people could purchase from (including the copy-paste stylers as you dubbed them) and yet they chose you. Your work. You want to know how the big dogs got to where they stood? By catering to the "cheap players". 

I agree with Azalie on losing interest; I had interest in your work and I was thinking of purchasing but this letter just threw it out the window. 

I'm not on here to make a profit with my graphics and I do plan to go to college for graphic design (it is my passion) so I can see where you got that impression, but it's not what I'm trying to say. The thing that bothers me about all this is how I look at bids, not as dollar signs but as demand (for lack of a better word.) I see the hpd as "if I opened commissions, this is what buyers would want to pay" if that makes sense. It's discouraging to spend 10 hours thinking people will really like this graphic just to have that hope smashed by unreasonably low bids. 

I know a lot of you are saying you cater to newer players and I applaud you for that, but I gotta say that's not what I'm auctioning graphics for. I would straight up hand out freebies if I wanted to help them out. I haven't yet, but it is on my agenda. I don't think it's about money or charity, honestly. I think of it as what one potential  commission buyer would or wouldnt want. My biggest fear is being a starving artist after spending thousands on a college degree in what I love doing just to wind up unemployed and unable to feed my family.

I'm looking at a much bigger picture (no pun intended) than accumulating hpd.

I should have been more clear about that.

I wouldn't take low bids personally. It's not always about you or your work. Like azalie said, there are new players who don't know what the HP economy is and the "appropiate" amount to bid on graphics. I mean, imagine coming from HL to here...the game economies are completely different.

Also, there are many breeds that are unpopular and therefore the graphic showcasing that breed may not get high bids or any bids at all. This goes for horses and dogs (mostly dogs I think, though). I made a dog picture that I posted in auctions and not one person bid on it. I don't take offense to that because I knew even if someone was interested, I probably wouldn't get a lot of money for it. I just keep it in "storage" until I feel like posting it again, or possibly I'll try selling it on another game.

Also, people's needs and views change on each work you post. Just recently, I posted 4 wolf/dog graphics, one got auto bought a day after posting them for $30 mill and another I accepted a bid for $7 mill after 6 days (my minimum is $6 mill btw). I don't know why one sold for substantially more than the other, I just figure it's what people see and like, and then decide to bid on.

Sometimes, you just take what you can get. If you want real money for your graphics and hard work, then sell them for real money (but not on HP because that's against rules).

Well, you have to take into account what Pieke and Tron were telling you in your last post as well. I have been on this game since November of 2013 - A time when players still starved and fought for graphics in the most insane bidding wars - There was also way more pages back then. In '13 there was at least 8 pages filled with layouts and quality graphics, now a days - You're lucky to even find a layout image or see the auction with more than 2 pages of graphics. 

The economy on here has dropped considerably and it doesn't seem to be spiking up - So, until that fiery starvation and craving for graphics again comes back to HP, you are never going to get more bids than that on a business standard. 

Secondly, it is very rare that players who buy graphics on here will want to pay real money for a commission to support someone's job; many people on here just want graphics for their horses, as a prize to a Club activity or a layout in this economy. So, that's an impossible goal on here. 

For what you want to do, by this comment - You need to just take it to DeviantART; you can start your business there, it fits more of your criterias than this game. 

I can't say much, cause I am just starting out in graphics, but I don't take it personally if no one bids on stuff. hha. or bids low.

I'll chime in here and say I agree with everything that has been said previously. I would also like to thank Aoi for posting the following as I think it sums up the HP community fabulously!

"What i and most players love about this game is its community spirit, we give back to each other and it makes it a better place to be. sure its good to vent and i can see your point, but take what you can get and give a player a much needed graphic. cause at the end of the day regardless of bid amount they would'nt bid if they didn't love it."

I would also like to point out that we have a starting bid option in auctions that has been added to help with the low bids issue.  If you have spent a great deal of time on a graphic please put the bare minimum you will accept for it as your SB.  If it doesn't sell that time around just put it in "storage" as Sass says, and bring it back out at a later time.  Not everyone is looking for the same thing all the time, so you may have better luck at a later date.

I'm not attempting to make USD on hp, idk where that came from lol. Of course, I'd open commissions on dA and plan to later. Right now, I'm testing the waters and trying to figure out what to begin pricing at when I do open commissions. At this point, it's hard not to take things personally when graphics are so rare, like equ said, I was here too when there were several pages of art and layouts up all the time. Now there's either less demand or less supply and in return, less bids.

Boy oh boy sometimes I think I'm the only person who understands me on here lmao. I'm not materialistic by any means. I really don't care about the dollar sign, just the fact that it displays "want" or "I like this" in my mind.

Low bid - ehhh it's ok
Medium bid - i like it
High bid - i love it, i must have it

That's how I see it. Not "oh no, I'm broke" lol.

I think I am legitimately the ONLY person on this whole game who is actually going to say this: Del....Majora...I actually agree with you. Especially on points #5 and #7. Those are the reasons I stopped making grapics on here. I would see stuff that, to me, took absolutely NO EFFORT to make getting 10-20 mill bids and my stuff that I spent HOURS on would get a bid like 50-100k. And that hurt. Especially when they were images that I sold IN REAL LIFE on canvas for $100. I would ask for feedback and wouldn't get any. I would work even harder on graphics and be very proud of them and still wouldn't see anything in terms of a payout. I offered free graphics and layouts to new players, but wanted to work my way into becoming one of the more established graphics makers in time, but felt like my hard work wasn't seeing the same "reward" as it were as other players who would take a picture straight from Flickr, put a texture on it with some words AND DO NOTHING ELSE, and sell it for 20 mill. I was like "ok so why am I even bothering to TEACH MYSELF how to do Photo Shop?" I didn't go to college, I didn't take classes somewhere, I don't have a facy degree like so many of you have. I just decided one day several years ago that I wanted to advance from Paint to Photo Shop and I wanted to figure it out for myself. So I did. Am I professional? Not even close. But do I feel as though my graphics deserve AT LEAST 5-10 mill? Yes. Granted, I don't do them anymore as I no longer have a computer with Photo Shop, but if I did, I would definitely utilize the starting bid feature that now exists. It really can feel insulting when you work for hours trying your absolute best on something and then you don't see a nice number on a bid. It feels like people think your work is bad but just don't feel like messaging you directly to tell you. And I also feel like low bids like that automatically make people not want to even take a look at your work...like it's a red flag to them. This is stuff that has been irritating me for a while. Yes, I sell (or sold) my graphics for real money as well as HPD. Yes, I worked hard on my stuff and felt it deserved more than a 100k bid. No, I am not professional nor did I or do I claim to be. Yes, this is my opinion. No, I don't need to hear you bash me and tell me I'm wrong. If Del is entitled to her opinion and everyone else who posted here is as well, then so am I.

@Majora and Absinthe: Why don't you put a minimum SB on your auctions? Or I guess I should ask, why haven't you?

Abs: Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I don't feel like anyone has meant to bash on maj in their comments (but then again, that would be my opinion ;))

Although I can understand that low bids are kind of discouraging at times, I would like to throw out there that worth is a subjective term. Just because something may be worth 100 mil to one person doesn't mean it's 100 mil to all.

Also I wouldn't say that the amount of time spent on an image = better quality either. I am by no means saying that either Maj or Abs have low quailty graphics (because you don't), but I know that I spend SO MUCH TIME on my own manipulations and they're subpar at best (and I'm ok with that).

And I know that this point has been brought up already, but honestly taste is a LARGE factor in when someone bids/how much. Some people perfer the "cut and paste" images or only textures added images you've mentioned over a more complex manip and are willing to pay more for them. You can't force someone to pay a higher price or bid at all for an image they're just not interested in.

And then this "cause at the end of the day regardless of bid amount they wouldn't bid if they didn't love it". Thank you Aoi for saying that so perfectly! ^-^

Personally I stand by what I said.

I'm not really sure if I understand why you're going to let the opinions (or lackthereof) of people on a fake horse game decide whether or not you become an artist... and to be fair, most Graphic Design programs don't teach you Photoshop because it's really meant only for photographers.

I mean if you're gonna be frustrated or upset with the amount of work you put into something vs. how much your paid... that's not always how it works, tbh. That's why most artists are commissioned with set fees of $/hour. 

Anyway, I'm a firm believer in setting my prices low until a general following is made. Then start charging more. After all, Blue Crab stuff was all the rage back when I played Horseland, but I don't think that popularity was gained overnight.

Disclaimer: I'm not a professional artist, I have no desire to be an artist, my art is far from perfect, I've never taken art classes, and this is meant as constructive critisism only.

From skimming over the auctions you have going on right now, you're asking way more than what the market has to offer. You're asking the same about of money if not more than what I charge for a fully coded layout with image. The 10-20mil you've gotten on some auctions is considered the higher end of picture bids anymore. Granted, there are people that like a particular person's work and then the bidding starts going up. But that's life and it's not fair so you just have to roll with it. With the "fad" of using one image for an entire breed/line of horses or dogs there has been a significant decrease in the demand for graphics. As mentioned before, it's also totally dependent on the demand for the image style/breed you make a picture with. 

To me, if you're going to sell pictures you need to remember that people don't know and don't care how many hours you put into something, it has absolutely no affect on their preference of one picture over another. If they like they'll bid, if they don't they won't.  "Low bid - ehhh it's ok. Medium bid - i like it. High bid - i love it, i must have it" This actually makes no sense when you think about it. No one buys a picture just to buy it or prove to you how much they like your work. They buy them because they want it. Period. Frankly, if they are broke but are bidding everything they have left to get your picture, that's a compliment. 

You said it yourself in the OP, "Photomanipulation takes endless patience and dedication to develop an effective technique." You're not going to sell for the 100mil with how you're applying your techiniques at this time. Most of your image concepts seem "half-baked" like the mane and tail may be all hand painted but is it really a realistic shape or why is the horse glowing and apparently standing on water? That is one of my biggest pet peeves, poorly painted hair. Everyone thinks they need to re-do the hair but if it's unrealistic then how much did you really improve the image? I'm not good at it so I rarely do it. Doesn't mean you can't do it but just because you did repaint it doens't mean you're going to sell the image for the same as someone that has mastered the art.

Last bit of advise, I overlook 90%  of the auctions that do not have even a snippit of the image for sale on the page. The generic image you use on all of your auctions is actually a huge turn off. Basically, if you can't be bothered to put the image on there (even if it's lower quality or just part of the image) I can't be bothered to look at it either. I don't know how many other people are like that but I'd bet I'm not the only one.

Sass: When I was making images, the SB feature was not in auction yet. I would list mine with a SB in the description and it would be ignored EVERY SINGLE TIME. So I just gave up. And again, I can't make graphics anymore due to not having the software.

Sometimes lower than normal bids are a little disappointing but it just comes with the game.  The graphic economy on here fluctuates soo much. I've only been back since July and I've seen prices drop drastically for really well made graphics no matter who is making them.  If I bid just above the starting bid on anyone's work its because I think its amazing and I think other people will bid aswell, leaving me a wiggle room in my budget for a bidding war.  

Just in general, for people really looking to get a certain amount out of their images I recommend putting the SB and AB closer together and be really up front about what you're looking for.  If no one bites after a week just keep extending the auction time (I just recently discovered this was a thing haha) or post the graphic on your home page for sale without putting it in auctions.

I totally understand the frustration of putting countless hours into a piece and not getting what you think you should out of it but I think its all about timing.  To really get the full value of a piece of art, the right people have to be looking at it at the right time with the right budget.  Sometimes taking it down a posting a week or two later does the trick. I think your graphics are really great Majora, just ride out this little bump in the economy and things might improve in a month or so.  I know this summer graphics were going for a lot more.